John Roth's 3/15/09 Memorandum re Guangzhou Consulate Available Online
My 3/15/09 memorandum can be viewed/downloaded at "Guangzhou U.S. Consulate: A National Disgrace. A Memorandum of Law and Fact by John F. Roth, Immigration Attorney".
The appendices may be viewed/downloaded at Gaungzhou Memorandum Appendices.
I am going to encourage the authors of the case histories to re-send me their case history .pdf files, but this time with any redactions they might need to feel comfortable with posting their histories on the internet.
We encourage anyone who is interested in the issues discussed above to contact their Congresspersons to demand quick action on reforming the Guangzhou U.S. Consulate.
The appendices may be viewed/downloaded at Gaungzhou Memorandum Appendices.
I am going to encourage the authors of the case histories to re-send me their case history .pdf files, but this time with any redactions they might need to feel comfortable with posting their histories on the internet.
We encourage anyone who is interested in the issues discussed above to contact their Congresspersons to demand quick action on reforming the Guangzhou U.S. Consulate.
posted by John Roth at
7:39 PM
7 Comments:
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Thank you for your tremendous effort. I hope other immigration attorneys will join in to expose these injustices.
Here's some things that we'd love to see at GUZ that deal specifically with blue slips and visa issuance:
1. many times our fiancees or spouses are hand carrying any documentation that could address a blue slip, at the interview window. We'd like to see the Visa Officer accept this evidence in real time, from her hand to the VO's hand, at the end of the interview, with a maximum of 3 days for further adjudication. The VOs do have the time to review this material in the afternoons.
2. Sometimes the visa cannot be issued within a 3 working day span because the name check is not complete, and the petition goes into AP (additional processing) mode. There is no notification to the beneficiary, in real time, about this. The VO already knows, at the interview, whether or not the petition is complete at the time of the interview - we'd like the VO to tell the beneficiary, at interview time, whether or not the Visa will actually be issued during this 3 day window, and whether or not the namecheck is complete, and whether or not the petition is complete - all before the beneficiary leaves the interview. We feel this could take as much as 30 seconds in additional time for each interview. Most beneficiaries have to stay in Guangzhou to wait for the VISA to arrive at that special China Post Office, and if they knew , on interview day, that the visa could not be issued within the normal time frame - then they could get on with the rest of
their planned living situations. Some of our members have had to stay in Guangzhou at a hotel for up to 3 weeks without any word of 'what's going on' - and in some cases, another notice was sent after a verbal approval at the interview, stating that the case needs more processing. Even this postal notice is unacceptable - as the VO knows , right then and there during the interview, whether or not the VISA will be issued during the 3 day window or no.
3. The 'change-of-address' problem at GUZ is troublesome - our members have emailed, faxed, called into the Shanghai Call Center, and sent postal mail notices about beneficiaries' change of address. 1/2 of the time, these changes are not applied, and a mailing label is generated with the address that was collected on the original G-325A form. We'd like to see something else occur at GUZ for 'same-day' change and storage of 'change-of-address' for beneficiaries.
Specifically for White Slips on the 'not a bonafide relationship' NOID issuance - The beneficiary is NEVER TOLD at the interview the exact reason for this white slip. We want that changed, so that any beneficiary is told, in real time, vocally and in writing, the exact details of the VO's reasoning behind the White Slip Issuance. Usually, the VOs will find some anomoly in the paperwork or in some timelines or timeticks, and then ask inane questions to the beneficiary, with the beneficiary totally unable to answer (getting flustered as well) - and the VO will have some incendiary reaction to the beneficiary, and not make any explanation.
My wife and I went through the interview process at the consulate in Guangzhou 5 years ago. She was given a blue slip because the visa officer didn't think her English was good enough for us to communicate. The interview consisted of the following dialog.
Visa Officer. "Do you speak English?"
My wife, "Yes but sometimes I have trouble hearing English"
The visa officer then said something my wife didn't understand, took the folder my wife had, rifled through it and proceeded to write out a blue slip. There was no effort to explain why or even try to make herself understood. She simply ended the interview by handing my wife a blue slip. On the blue slip my wife was asked to provide a video of me speaking Chinese for five minutes. She told the visa officer that she had a video of us speaking together but the visa officer refused to look at it. Since I don't speak Chinese and it was unlikely that I would learn anytime soon I got on a plane and flew to China. My wife and I had a friend in Shenzhen who is a photographer and graciously volunteered to shoot a new video for us. After returning to Guangzhou we submitted our new video of us speaking English together to the consulate. In those days the overcome process was much better than it is now. You simply turned in your overcome evidence one day and came back to get the results the next. When we came back the next day my wife was interviewed by a different, much more polite visa officer. She passed the interview and we came back and picked up the visa the next day.
In the years since I have been involved in an on line forum devoted to the visa process as it pertains to China. I have seen what should be simple overcomes turn into a bureaucratic nightmare of delays and red tape. In the last few months many of our members are reporting a marked increase in Notices Of Intent to Deny, a white slip that is a recommendation for the petition to be refused that is sent back to the USCIS.
There is no accountability at the consulate, visa officers do as they wish with no regard to the Foreign Affairs Manual. Instead of giving a legitimate reason for a visa denial the use the catch all blanket "not a bona fide relationship" reason. These people are raising havoc with people's lives. Something needs to be done to rein in this rogue consulate.
Where does one begin,HMMMMMM......well like Dorothy said to Toto,"we are not in Kansas any more."I am blown away,that in America,2 people in love have to go through so much crap to be together.the journey to hell......first our petition gets lost(we submitted our k3,when the price increase happened,and know one thought people were not going to rush their petitions in before the price increase)there was a big increase in petitions. DAH !.anyway,we submitted to Texas center,then USCIS sent it to California,where California sent it to Chicagos lockbox,well it ended up in Vermont.I knew then,buckle up,we are in for a ride,bare ass on pavement.Anyway 13 months go by,my wife gets her day in court,i mean has an interview....or do i mean court? first let me say,we spent 700 american dollars,for my wife to get on a plane,rent an apartment,medical fees,etc...to get to sit down in front of a rude black woman,goes by the name "M",treated my wife like a dog,called her a liar.And for a wait of 13 months,my wife gets a 10 minute so called interviewVisa officer looked at a half dozen pictures,and accused my wife of lieing about my step daughters age,would not look at a birth certificate,after all,this was right after the olympics,where my great country accused the Chinese government of making up phoney birth certificates for the gymnastic team.Well,The psychic Visa Oficer did not need evidence,she read her tarot cards and gave my wife the white slip.Yes didn't need evidence,since she did not bother to look at any of our evidence of a bonafide relationship,such as emails,many of which were intimate,but was available for a visa officer to read,no yahoo chats examined,no phone records looked at,no bank statements,nothing.Then my wife was told to get out of her chair,leave and go to window 30,or some window,as if a dog.My wife in tears,but what do they care,they are looking for bad guys,oh really !!! thats why hundreds ,thousands cross our borders each and every night,and who knows these people crossing our borders,could be terrorists. .....,my wife yes ok,doesnt speak much english.....oh ...english is a problem,we have people that come here to America that never bother to learn english,thus we made "spanish"Americas second language,at least my wife is trying to learn english,and is going to school........UHM HUM.........Now for the final kick in the "you know where"....."America",keep this in mind now...."America",my wife and I do not know what we were denied for,never will know what we were denied for,or what was wriiten in our file...."secrecy"? America?......yes,Dorothy in the wizard of Oz said to Toto...."we are not in Kansas anymore....look let me get to my point.....things have got to change,this consulate has gone Amok...I love this country,and right now I am ashamed of it.Gods honest truth.Please,lets make some changes.Something has gone terribly wrong here.I am for following the law,and my wife and I pride ourselves in being law abiding citizens.If you're accusing me or my wife of something,i want to know what it is ,you are accusing me of...at the very least.I live in America,not Russia.
Jimi
I am sure there are a lot of people in the same boat as me; the ones who have their significant others visa rejected by the Guangzhou consulate for apparent no good reason. Like everyone else, I was so happy to meet my fiancee in China. I would never be able to find someone like my fiancee in the United States. Before my fiancee's interview at the consulate, I did not have any thought of her not getting the visa. I met her on my first time to China in 2007, proposed engagement to her three months later and filed for a fiancee visa three months after that. I went back two more times. We went to many places in China, took thousands of pictures, had our engagement party and wedding gown photos taken together. We have a lot of pictures to show that we have a bona fide relationship, the proof we lack are communication records. We used the online Skype program to see and chat with each other almost everyday and I called her with calling cards which cost only 1 cent a minute but I didn't have any record for those calls. I thought the trips to China and the pictures we had was more than enough to prove our bona fide relationship. We evicted the tenet from my parent's condo and have it refurbished and bought some furnitures ready to have my fiancee to come to the States. I was so happy and looking forward to her arrival I told my coworkers, friends and relatives. I have a lot of plans after my fiancee gets here. All of things I done and planed for my fiancee to come last Dec 2008 came crumbled down. I called her and her father all day during her interview date. Finally she came out after hours of wait and told me the grim news that she did not get the visa and was given the blue slip. I was immediately stunt by the news, I could not believe it. She told me she had this black fat VO lady that she was told from other people is the meanest and the hardest to give out visa. The VO she was afraid the most to be interview called her number. The people we hired to file out my fiancee's paperwork told us we should not have problem getting the visa because of our times together and pictures to prove it. After she emailed me the scan blue slips, I immediately spend all my effort to get all the things checked on the list. There were many items on the check list but we have all of them in place. We have met every requirement on that list and I thoroughly explained my financial situation and my relationship with my fiancee. I was sure that we could overcome the blue slip. After a month we sent it in, I got the bad news from my fiancee's father that they have received the rejection letter saying they don't believe we have a bona fide relationship after looking at our overall picture. I was shock, numb, I felt my heart rate and blood pressure immediately shot up. From that moment on, the rejection has affected me physically and mentally. I found a supportive website name Candle For Love and read that many others have the same fate as us, especially during the period between August 2008 to January 2009. This rejection has greatly affecting me, my fiancee and all of our family members. Like Mr. Roth article mentioned, the Guangzhou consulate and it's people and policy has subjected all of the people who got their visa rejected endless unnecessary suffering and perhaps cause many breakups. The worst part of it is not knowing what we did wrong to get the rejection and constant worry for over the period of applying for another visa. My case did not fit in any of Mr. Roth list of refusals. I speak the same language as my fiancee, I visited my fiancee 3 times in China, I have thousand of pictures from the trips we took, I study and graduated from college last year so I didn't make much money the previous 3 years. We showed the consulate my college diploma that prove I will be making enough money to support my fiancee when she gets here. I have served in military and continue to serve in the reserve now. Obviously they don't take in consideration for what you have done for the United States. Sometime I tried to reason with myself that we had bad luck because of the timing. The economy was especially bad during later part of last year and early this year. The mean VO my fiancee had, the VO who reviewed our case after we send in overwhelmingly evidence of our bona fide relationship. Who knows what the hell caused them to rejected us, even with all the efforts from people like Warren who tried endlessly to find out the causes, yet got the same crap answers. Now like other honest people who have their fiancee, spouse rejected by the Guangzhou consulate, I have to live with all the awful feelings everyday of not having my love one here with me in the U.S and worry endlessly of what kind of outcome we will get when we go through that consulate again. I hope your effort Mr. Roth and others will help those of us who got our visas rejected and those who will come later the proper fair legal treatment that us Americans deserved. Thank you
Hello, went through this bunch of low life criminals. My wife refused in 1998, no relationship. Got approved again by USCIS and now refused again for the same reasons by this bunch of criminals 2010. Yes I know how it upsets ones life and causes so much heart ache and pain. My wife and I since 2003, married 2006. we used messengers not so many email. Why write email when see each other everyday and can talk with web cam and voice. My wife and I have a new construction home in China that we both finished together and home in US with I and her name on both DEEDs. VO officer said this means nothing. Hard not to have hate for those in US government at this consulate Guangzhou.
Told by NVC, Retired Disabled Veterans do not have rights to marry in China and to get a visa for their wives. Told by NVC I should have married a white american, not her views but what she is told by the managers of NVC.
I get it now, if a vet, if retired, if disabled, if do not pay the bribes to the visa companies in the consulate, if honest and true boni-fide relationship.
YOU GET NO VISA.
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